Automation trifft Organisation: n8n × Notion

Transcript

00:00:00Welcome to Think Different, Think AI, the podcast by Mark and Jens.

00:00:07Two tech-loving minds who don’t just talk about artificial intelligence but live it.

00:00:14Here you'll find clear classifications, real practical insights, and a fresh perspective on what's possible.

00:00:20Understandable, critical, and always with a wink.

00:00:24KD for reflection, for a smile, and above all for joining the conversation.

00:00:29Welcome to the new episode of ZinkDiffinZink AI.

00:00:38Today it's all about agency, today it will have a bit to do with workflows and

00:00:42today it's without Jens, but still with a very competent guest who will

00:00:49surely introduce himself shortly.

00:00:50Yes, welcome to a new episode of the digital time, my podcast that I

00:00:57started during Corona and still continue sporadically. Today with a

00:01:02special episode, Mark just called it a crossover and that's the name of the guest in

00:01:07this episode, the digital time today with topics like Notion, N8N, Workflows and the ubiquitous

00:01:17topic of AI. Welcome, Mark. Yes, welcome, Dirk. I actually found the idea of such a

00:01:23crossover episode a bit crazy, but at least our podcasts, we can hold on to and

00:01:28tuning in. Like the roofer, as we want it. I started, so I'm asking

00:01:33first, Mark, maybe tell us a bit about yourself before I may introduce myself to you as well.

00:01:38Yes, very gladly. I'm Dirk, I'm the managing director and founder of Art und Weise,

00:01:44professionally involved with the digital age for over 35 years, just like this podcast is called,

00:01:50And new things keep happening, and I won’t recount all 35 years, but the last, let’s say, two years have been quite impressive and overshadow everything we experienced before, at least in my opinion.

00:02:06And especially with my special topic Notion, where spoiler, I would say this brand and this company are as amazing as Apple, and that says a lot.

00:02:17Especially with this topic and AI, it’s really great that we’re here today.

00:02:23So, I work in a digital agency called Art und Weise,

00:02:28with 60 employees in Bremen, and now to you, Mark, who are you actually?

00:02:33Yes, so for the listeners of your podcast, Mark Magzerman, I am employed at NBW,

00:02:41responsible for everything regarding mobile loss developers, so all apps for

00:02:46internal use. I’ve been doing this since 2009.

00:02:51One doesn’t get any younger, so the saying about wise old gray men

00:02:55standing in front trying to tell the world definitely applies to me.

00:02:58My main job is, let’s say, the politics behind the scenes, the ideas

00:03:03to implement new products in our corporation for mobile devices, just as

00:03:08you said a little bit, what’s been happening with me for the last two years

00:03:10has actually been more like the beginning of the year, namely this topic

00:03:14Since that day, something new has been coming over the horizon, called AI, what is all possible with that?

00:03:21And maybe, you already hinted earlier that we’ll also be talking about Notion.

00:03:27Perhaps a fun fact.

00:03:30Dirk and I are related.

00:03:33We belong to the same family tree, I should say.

00:03:37And in the past, Dirk was very much involved with app rights, and I used to chuckle a bit,

00:03:47because I was more into Microsoft Windows MCSE training, Windows NT as an operating system.

00:03:54That was more my home, until I eventually switched to a MacBook and since then couldn't imagine anything better,

00:04:02than using a Mac, which later also had a significant impact on my job.

00:04:09I mean, who knows what I do, which companies I interact with, what solutions I build,

00:04:14what I'm talking about is very Apple-centric. And history seems to repeat itself.

00:04:20Not that I like the fashion from back then, definitely not.

00:04:25Neither in terms of body size, nor, let's say, visually would it suit me either.

00:04:30No, something similar has emerged with Notion, and N after N, because those are

00:04:37definitely still tense matters, from which I hope to get a little something from you

00:04:39listen today, where I also learn a lot from you and can learn, because you are a very strong

00:04:44proponent of Notion in the right way. Yes, it's nice that you say that, because I

00:04:50want to disclaim right now for everyone from my company who will eventually

00:04:55hear this podcast. I feel you, I love you all, but the fact that I’m totally nerdy about Notion and

00:05:03that it sometimes annoys you, I get it. I think so too, we're working on it.

00:05:08There are many people now who support me to make it better. But

00:05:13Notion is the piece of software that has truly impressed me in all these years of digital time

00:05:20has been put under a spell for years now. And I really have to say that what is possible with it,

00:05:25but especially what the vision of the main founder is, I would say

00:05:30I'm going to say, Ivan Sao is just madness, namely my favorite saying, namely

00:05:36everything is connected to everything. And a few weeks ago, somehow

00:05:40Narschend 3.0 came out, so this AI version that quite a few people are talking about.

00:05:45out. And that has now crowned the whole thing. But we'll talk about that

00:05:48So, yes, thank you very much. I'll say something from my perspective. Thank you for being here.

00:05:52We were already together with my podcast, and then I think we weren't together yet.

00:05:55No, it's a premiere for you and for me. And vice versa,

00:06:00one remembers the image with the Apple Vision Pro. That's the cover of the podcast with you.

00:06:06And I'm looking forward to tonight. I think you said something earlier,

00:06:10there was also something in there that many like to forget when they talk about

00:06:15AI systems, and don't worry, this won't be too strong of a digression,

00:06:20because it's about the human aspect. So, you have something to do, you have a tool at hand,

00:06:24with which you want to do something, but what's the use of the best tool if you have no one

00:06:28who collaborates. So if someone thinks that’s bad, from that side, I think too.

00:06:33the point that perhaps one should also speak, both in good and in bad,

00:06:37along the lines of, what do we encounter when we also incorporate technology in this

00:06:41The manner in which this is linked to hype in the form of either salvation or

00:06:46the downfall of humanity, depending on whom you ask, that one also might just

00:06:51two or three sentences maybe later occupied. But you mentioned Notion, can

00:06:56you or the listeners probably best explain to me briefly, what is actually

00:07:00Notion? Yes, good question. Notion is a cloud-based app, so a service that you can

00:07:07first of all, if you want to register for free, there are many things. So a database,

00:07:13a note-taking tool, a project management tool, a wiki, a knowledge database, and so on

00:07:21and so forth. But above all, Notion is the possibility that almost everyone,

00:07:27who can find their way a bit with the computer, can create their own environment, their

00:07:34own, how do I want to manage my data? How do I want to organize myself to build a field

00:07:38that can be built? And this idea that everyone can build their own world, that is

00:07:47actually the basic idea of Notion when they started. Then the AI and

00:07:53the AI revolution is, so to speak, accompanied by Notion, quite early on. One has to say that the

00:07:58first AI versions that Notion integrated were like, oh yeah, no, then I'd rather go

00:08:02to chat GPT. It wasn't really great back then. And now it is the

00:08:08ultimate app, if I'm not interested in AI from a technical perspective, but

00:08:14only from a results perspective. And that's also this topic I have with Apple. Apple has

00:08:19often highlighted what can I do with it. It makes

00:08:24the possibility to work with a computer democratized, build the Mac, this

00:08:29little box and attach a mouse, and that has already made it so that anyone can

00:08:34so this is the vision to work with it.

00:08:37Apple presented something in 1984 that I find almost, no, that I find just as revolutionary

00:08:43as the 3.0 version of Notion, namely the ability to use AI in this era for

00:08:50me, without needing to know a thousand things, without agents and understanding everything perfectly

00:08:56one hundred percent.

00:08:57I can just tell this thing what I want, and it can already do a lot of that now

00:09:02.

00:09:03It is just as imperfect as the first Mac, of course from today’s perspective, but it is

00:09:07just as revolutionary when you look at everything before it for me.

00:09:11It’s quite funny, actually.

00:09:13You, just like back then with your, it was really bigger had your Macbook, you had

00:09:18this giant thing, this huge ship, definitely a 15 inch one.

00:09:24What holds, let's just say the very big one and I always found it somehow

00:09:30strange how you could work with the Mac and I felt that way for a long time with

00:09:33Notion. You've been talking about Notion for a long time and I kept looking at it

00:09:38and at first I found it off-putting because, let's say, this soft flat paper.

00:09:44You have something there and you have to, let's say, think about how to start,

00:09:48I always said no, I won't touch it and I don't know,

00:09:51what? In retrospect, I have to say, what a stupid story. I would be so glad if

00:09:56many things were already in Notion and I wouldn't have to import them now,

00:09:59because, what did I do instead of using a tool, no matter how well or poorly organized, I put

00:10:05everything into Apple Notes. Now I have 3.8 gigabytes of data, greetings to

00:10:10the team, Notion was sweating during the import. I got myself a small tool to

00:10:14export the notes so I could import them into Notion, but to make a long

00:10:17story short. My alternative wasn't good. So then this actually came,

00:10:23the magical moment and I still remember how you wrote to me, here's the same

00:10:26keynote at Notion. And then I thought to myself, well look at that, they also have a

00:10:31keynote, that’s cool. Let's check it out. And then you open this keynote and

00:10:37look at it and think, yeah, okay, this is a mix of Apple and

00:10:40Sam Altman. There’s a little stage, there’s some

00:10:43presentation behind it, they tell a bit and then they quickly grab

00:10:46you with the topic of what they want to do with AI or what they’re now also releasing as their first

00:10:52functionalities. And suddenly you were no longer in the position where you had to describe a white

00:10:57sheet of paper yourself, but you could tell it what you wanted. And that

00:11:03I still find that today. When I show people how cool Notion is, they ask a bit about it.

00:11:09Some things that I know sometimes interest people

00:11:12are the weather at the vacation spot or something, and you just go into this assistant, say,

00:11:17create a database, powered by AI, you write in, I don't know, vacation spot, weather,

00:11:22whatever. And then it starts, it gives you a structure, suggestions, fills in the

00:11:26weather data for you. That's the first moment where you see a smile on your

00:11:31face about your area, and that's certainly not all that Notion does,

00:11:36what Snowshin does. For me, Snowshin since Diversion is like a look-up.

00:11:42Yes, we have up here, in case someone hears this someday, in the year 2025. It hasn't been

00:11:47that long since Snowshin 3 was released, and it's one of the tools that is in my top 3

00:11:55tools. Unfortunately not in the company environment. We are a very Microsoft-heavy

00:12:02company. It’s not that I haven’t tried to somehow get a foothold with that tool.

00:12:07But it’s a tool that I say runs circles around

00:12:13what Microsoft does. Circles around what Google Workspace and whatever the whole

00:12:18thing is called does. It’s so powerful and from my perspective, very user-friendly

00:12:23and it needs. When you realize what concepts are possible,

00:12:28it’s incredible. I’m getting warmed up. Sorry, I’ll give you the floor in a moment,

00:12:31but when you said everything is, what was that again? Everything is data, everything is,

00:12:35the sentence? Yes, exactly, I find that so fascinating when you call up the assistant

00:12:41and you create your connections and tie the components together,

00:12:45you can link rows, you can link cells, you can link tables, you can link folders, you can link documents

00:12:52together in an agentic query. That’s,

00:12:58it’s mind-blowing, it surprises me every time I see the result.

00:13:04Yes.

00:13:05And the crazy thing is, when you're standing in front of it now, you have a learning curve

00:13:11and that is something that has usually been tried to solve in various ways for years

00:13:15.

00:13:16sometimes better, sometimes worse.

00:13:17They have features, they've even built features that are worse because they made these strange,

00:13:21embedded templates, like wiki functions, these strange things.

00:13:27No one wants that, the ambassadors keep advising them to please turn it off, no one wants it because you have to solve it differently with the help of people who build templates or with the help of YouTubers. There’s a great YouTuber, a German, who is very, very well-known, Matthias Frank from Berlin, I definitely think he's the best from Germany. He does speak English in his videos, of course, because he positions himself internationally, but he is one of my favorites. And Thomas Frank from the USA is great, and my absolute favorite is of course Simon.

00:13:57from England with Better Creating. He is the one who also built the great agent. What

00:14:02I actually wanted to say is, Notion has a learning curve, but it is kind of similar

00:14:09to democracy, the European Union, and also back then with Apple. It’s a bit more complicated.

00:14:15actually. That's a bit unusual. But in the end, when you look back

00:14:21on that, having gone through this learning curve, you say, okay, how could I

00:14:24live without it. I mean, how could one live without an Apple ecosystem where the watch, the

00:14:32Division Pro, the tablet, everything is connected? And Apple invented that.

00:14:38We all know how bad it was in the beginning, the iCloud and so on from Apple.

00:14:41Zurich you. Yes, for example. I’m only still using it, but it’s the same with Norschen.

00:14:47I've always had a feeling with Norschen, like with Apple in the 90s,

00:14:51until 3.0 came out. Okay, I know, it’s good for something that I stand by Norschen and

00:14:57I always found it great and I'm totally deep into it. But with the launch from a few

00:15:03weeks ago, you really have to say, it’s basically like Think Different, the ad comes

00:15:08out, Steve comes back, and everything will be fine. That's how it feels right now. Because it's in

00:15:13connects all these things. So say that, we all still remember how it used to be,

00:15:18but I must say, if you haven't looked at the game yet,

00:15:21we are both of the older caliber.

00:15:24I recently met people who only know the introduction of the iPhone

00:15:29from history books, because at that time they were at most

00:15:32in kindergarten, they had no association with it.

00:15:36And they were standing in front of me with the knowledge of the keynote,

00:15:39they had seen it on YouTube,

00:15:41and explained to me how it was back then,

00:15:44when the iPhone was released.

00:15:45And back then, when I didn't quite like the Mac yet,

00:15:50I had a colleague in my work environment whom I helped,

00:15:53to put a PCMCIA card into the Apple Newton, to be able to connect.

00:15:59You know? And these colleagues tell you,

00:16:02how the world functioned when the iPhone came out

00:16:06and evaluate it only through the still iconic appearance

00:16:10of Steve on stage, when he said, an iPhone,

00:16:13an Internet communication device and just white screen eye port or the other way around.

00:16:17It doesn't matter, I'm not Stief.

00:16:19And I find it so crazy that things like, when you say,

00:16:22okay, how you know it from before, you don't know them.

00:16:24Yes, it's like when I try to explain to my kids, I don't know,

00:16:26old phone jokes and they say,

00:16:28hm, that's very nice, but what is that?

00:16:30Yeah, well, what am I supposed to do with that?

00:16:33So, from that perspective, one can say it was complicated.

00:16:35And when you said it's something you need to get used to,

00:16:38I would also say, Notion is not complicated,

00:16:39Notion is something you need to get used to.

00:16:41Once I got used to it, you can trust it with things, you can ask it for things.

00:16:49I claim, God knows, that I haven't figured everything out yet.

00:16:52But even when I imported these notes, it was totally fascinating.

00:16:56Then I had six hundred thousand trained entries after a while, because the notes were anything but cool.

00:17:02And then I said to it, look, please make this for me in the database.

00:17:05Just do it, make it happen, no idea what, then it was back and at some point it has a database with a bit of tagging on it, it opens the original note in the database.

00:17:16That's magic.

00:17:19This is truly a magical moment, and I had mentioned it to you recently and shared it on LinkedIn.

00:17:25So if Apple ever decided to go on a Popping Tour, honestly, no matter who from Apple is listening, buy the store.

00:17:32It makes such rounds around all the other stuff.

00:17:36Although sometimes there are things that I see Apple Caster break afterwards.

00:17:40Siri could do more back then before he bought the music.

00:17:44One must not forget either.

00:17:46This Ivan Sauer is an extremely precise person.

00:17:50He's a guy who's a bit shy,

00:17:53he's not like Steve or anything.

00:17:55He knew exactly what he wanted.

00:17:58These founding stories are really interesting.

00:18:00Interesting because he had this initial notion as some sort of cloud-lotids-thingamajig

00:18:05then somehow thought he built that, it wasn't successful and it didn't work out at first

00:18:09and then he went to Kyoto with his buddy, he is South Korean,

00:18:13but he still went to Kyoto, Japan, and they locked themselves in for eight weeks

00:18:16he is also a developer and they just worked on this vision

00:18:22and the core idea of Notion is that it's all based on Lego blocks, so

00:18:26that means a database entry, a row in Excel is actually a page and they

00:18:35internally call the database not a database, but a collection.

00:18:39It’s a collection of pages.

00:18:42That means you have a hundred rows, those are the pages and the database itself

00:18:47in collections.

00:18:48And that you have fields there, like in a database, so columns in

00:18:52Excel terms.

00:18:53That is obviously necessary and clear, but you can also address an element on a page and you can mark an element and say copy, go somewhere else and say paste and then it asks you if it should sync and then it syncs it and it basically does like this.

00:19:13So then it iframes this element somewhere and now just imagine you have templates and you have a central place, then you build these foundations somewhere, pack them into the templates, when you use the templates, it syncs them there.

00:19:29But if you change something in the foundation, it goes through all instances. That’s totally crazy and that’s why AI is so incredible right now, because you have like an Inception thing.

00:19:40You can link a prompt, with a prompt, with a prompt, with a prompt if you need to.

00:19:46And that is the basic principle of this, they call it Building Blocks, so everything is a block.

00:19:52Everything is a Neoblock.

00:19:54So just what you did with your iFrame example, I have to honestly admit that.

00:19:59That’s true.

00:20:00I saw the menu option and thought, hey, what are you talking about?

00:20:04Do I really need to take another look after the episode?

00:20:07still in that eye-opening AI part, where I have the assistant in the corner, but

00:20:14also in the, excuse me if I probably choose the wrong vocabulary, in the

00:20:19columns, so properties. I try, I try. For example, I say, okay, I

00:20:23have properties here for this database or Sanbello or whatever, and these

00:20:28might not be filled out by hand because I have a text or a multi-select

00:20:33or something like that, but you can also say, tariffs, this property with AI.

00:20:37Yes, I thought that too. Holder Falter, right? So how crazy is it that I'm putting in

00:20:42the database? So my Excel cells are set and certain fields just get filled out,

00:20:49because there’s enough data available and I told it to do it with an AI rule.

00:20:54Customs and then you stand there and think, okay, he just assigned me categories.

00:20:59and derived from what they wrote earlier.

00:21:02He has no idea what's going on.

00:21:04And then you can even go ahead and say,

00:21:07I'm adding views on top of that and then I always have a diagram.

00:21:10and then I have a table again and then I have the table with a filter.

00:21:14And you stand in front of it with your mouth open and think,

00:21:18how much work would that have cost me alone with traditional office tools.

00:21:24For example, I am a proponent of Keynote.

00:21:27Yes, I think we are probably different on that now.

00:21:29as far as I remember, you're not really into the keynote app, into the app.

00:21:35I'm back now, I eventually went on Google because we do so much in the

00:21:38team at the company. And it's true, everyone who comes from design or from Apple

00:21:42hates me for it. All the people who are new and think we're the

00:21:47coolest Apple company. And then realize that we work on Google Presentations. We

00:21:51get this. So I totally understand that. But when you collaborate

00:21:55this way, it's just unmatched for you.

00:21:59I know the problem with us, it's PowerPoint, you're standing there.

00:22:02We're basically the little Gallic village, everything we present, we do with Keynote.

00:22:08And everything that has to be distributed in a corporate-compatible way, we use PowerPoint.

00:22:13Greetings to everyone at the company who knows me, but you know,

00:22:17you also feel what you're getting into with us. But still, even there,

00:22:21whether you actually wanted to get out. Keynote is also more powerful than one might suspect at first glance,

00:22:29maybe not necessarily in the exchange and I don’t know, connecting to data sources and

00:22:34whatever, but if you wanted to quickly create nice presentations, it felt like

00:22:39nothing could compete with Keynote. It even felt easier in Keynote with your

00:22:43fingers than, for example, with PowerPoint, considering the level of handling,

00:22:48I mean PowerPoint, every time I use it I feel fear and dread when I finally have to use PowerPoint.

00:22:53has to be touched.

00:22:54Recently I showed you on the Windows computer, what to present.

00:22:57I was already asked by colleagues if I'm really going to drop such a dusty thing.

00:23:01Touch Windows computers.

00:23:02I briefly thought about whether I should definitely wear gloves.

00:23:05But a completely different topic.

00:23:06And I think that's also a point with Notion.

00:23:09It appears so unassuming and yet is extremely powerful.

00:23:15What are you all doing with Notion?

00:23:17So, you can say something about that.

00:23:19Maybe it's also good to mention where it might get stuck.

00:23:24I would say there are certain things that might be worth looking into.

00:23:27Yes.

00:23:28So first I started, back then we had some financial stuff in,

00:23:35what is it called on Google, not Excel, but Sheets or something, Google Sheets

00:23:42and in Google, in the Google Word, in the Docs, exactly.

00:23:46And I had built a few things there because my former colleague wanted something for financial planning and so on there.

00:23:53We didn't put much effort into it, I just built something, didn't want to use any software.

00:23:57But exactly that kept growing and when I realized, okay, I can do everything in Google, but somehow it feels strange with all these errors.

00:24:06I then accidentally got Notion on the table and then I fiddled around in it and built something.

00:24:12So, the beginning was actually a sort of liquidity planning, when to write

00:24:18which invoices, paying world and then relatively a lot of stuff came along, which

00:24:26so it has to do with data storage or you simply need a database and then you can

00:24:30just say, I want a database and the following fields should be there and the

00:24:33people should have access and it should be like this and that, and then it works, and

00:24:37then, but this is the core today, at some point the question was how do we actually solve

00:24:42our capacity planning in the future.

00:24:46Capacity planning at Nagentour involves many clients, many projects, many

00:24:52Working with employees, changing structures, and so on, is not quite simple, that's

00:24:56from an IT perspective, it's not an easy thing, you can find some

00:25:03simple solutions online regarding marketing, but when you really

00:25:07mean it seriously, it's not trivial. So we started for about

00:25:13half a year doing it ourselves first, then with a colleague together,

00:25:17then with others testing together and so on, and at some point I

00:25:21built the version that we introduced about a year and a half ago, a bit more than a year and a half

00:25:25ago, and that is a typical customer project ticket system,

00:25:32time tracking, which mainly organizes the work. And that's relatively substantial. I believe,

00:25:38there isn't a major reinstallation, but the situation exists. And that is the

00:25:46second part of the question, which also includes the downtime. Notion is great for data, for meetings,

00:25:52in AI now and so on, but Notion is not as good in the areas where Excel is just really good,

00:25:56namely, I have twelve months and thousands of data points and I want

00:26:01to connect that with some formulas and so on. If you want to build that in Notion,

00:26:05then you have to create relationships to itself and really strange rollups and very

00:26:11odd calculations, and until about half a year ago, Notion had become so slow,

00:26:15that my people said, I can’t work with this anymore, then Notion did the

00:26:20Summer of Excellence and invested all their developer skills only in performance

00:26:25and none in anything else. And the performance investment really paid off. Now everything

00:26:31is fast or fast enough. But that is so, well you can, you can

00:26:36do everything with it. I've solved every problem we had with it, but it's just

00:26:40at this point a bit like you’re still pulling a hose out of the machine

00:26:45through the window, back in through the sunroof and out the back.

00:26:49dying and flashing. You get that feeling with, with certain things, with Norschen.

00:26:53But I mean, not everyone deals with such Excel wallpaper every day.

00:26:59Yes, I mean, of course you find certain edge cases where you say, okay,

00:27:05there is no idea, Excel was always better or faster to the goal or whatever,

00:27:14but what I find so nice about Notion is that it is just so omnipresent for me in so

00:27:21many things. I mean, I don't have such capacities, like workforce planning or so

00:27:25on. As I said, I basically only use it privately to evaluate things and structure my

00:27:32stuff. For example, I gave a shout-out to Leo Becker,

00:27:37a hot publisher. I think I'm back in that podcast the day after tomorrow. Where

00:27:41we would talk about the Apple Vision Pro? I also showed him how you could

00:27:45suggest show notes like that. What topics do you have? You can

00:27:49send the agents out to scan the website for news. So no

00:27:542.5 Mac and the decoders and I don't know what else, so that you put that into a database.

00:27:59You can ask him to pull out what's still left, you can ask him to

00:28:02summarize coherent things that are grouped by the same AI-generated categories.

00:28:08You can then ask him to create straight-up lists from that, what do you actually want maybe in

00:28:13discussing your podcast, that's already fascinating, or another topic is,

00:28:18that I said, here we always research the following stuff and then I had

00:28:22made more tables and that kind of stuff from it, again there is a distance applied on it.

00:28:26And what I totally love about Notion is that it's not a closed system, it's open.

00:28:30So you can integrate other things and you can integrate Notion itself.

00:28:35So maybe we can spend another two or three sentences on that.

00:28:38For example, I went ahead and really like using OpenAI in its original form, so in the

00:28:44vanilla edition, let's say, when we wanted to mess around a bit with Android, no worries,

00:28:49you won't get more Android quotes, that's not coming. And Manus. Both OpenAI and Manus

00:28:56allow me to say, hey, pass, I connect Notion. And then I can

00:29:00go ahead and say, hey, pass, I'm doing my research with Manus

00:29:04and stuff, and then at the end, when everything is done, I say, now please make me

00:29:08a table in the place of Schnickschnack-Schnuck and please put the entries that

00:29:13you found directly into Notion. Then you either have a

00:29:17table in Notion that gets expanded because it's already there, or a table that gets created.

00:29:21And I think that's also cool, I mean sure, you could say export as CSV or import

00:29:27that CSV for me, or you just say it’s there. And if you then use something like Manus and say,

00:29:32you turn that into a daily work assignment. I also let Manus scan various

00:29:37internet sources and then automatically fill these tables, and then you have

00:29:42when you open your Notion in the morning, always a fresh table with current news,

00:29:48with AI-generated keywords and formatting, and even a reminder, or then also think, okay,

00:29:54that's definitely also a game-changer for research and filing and linking to AI systems

00:30:02with me. Absolutely. But what I want to add is, I'll get to AI shortly. I

00:30:07just wanted to say, this accent system has, so first data, then finances,

00:30:13then all kinds of data, knowledge, blah, blah, blah, and then really the heart, so

00:30:19how do you organize yourself?

00:30:20So the ticket system.

00:30:21Yes, yes.

00:30:22The ticket system creates the following number.

00:30:25How much do I, as a person working in this company, have to calculate this week?

00:30:32Does it add up or not? Including my part-time hours, including my vacation,

00:30:38including my sickness, and including all the things I need to do, I somehow

00:30:41reach these 5 days if I work 5 days. So, that's not trivial, because if I have

00:30:47this number reliably, and we now have it reliably across the year, over

00:30:50one and a half years, then I can orient myself by that. The team leader can look at it,

00:30:54anyone can look at it. That's incredible, and it's represented in such a timeline.

00:30:57So, now pay attention. Then this damn AI comes along. And now you can tell this

00:31:02thing, I made such a master prompt where I explain everything, how everything works,

00:31:07what is meant by what and where. And now I can talk to the AI. How much time, who could

00:31:12be the next one? Who could work on this? Which team still has capacity? This is

00:31:18not perfect yet. This is in the beginning. But now I can seriously talk to an artificial

00:31:23intelligence about capacity planning. I can talk about when we can start the

00:31:29next project in the web area? When can we start the next project in the social

00:31:33media area and in the video area? This is not perfect, but all of this is

00:31:37now available. And that drives me crazy because I think, oh my God, what does

00:31:42this mean? I can suddenly talk to a 24/7 entity that is never tired, always smart, and

00:31:50discuss topics that are truly important, those which are really at the core of the company.

00:31:55And that makes it so crazy, and it really has the context of what it's about in a

00:32:01company like ours, namely who works when, on what, with how much, how much

00:32:06money do we get for it, how much have we already worked on it.

00:32:09I can ask where things are going poorly, where things are going well, and I have all the time

00:32:13real, important data for that.

00:32:16I already regret having made that jump to sugar I system, because while you were talking, I was thinking,

00:32:24I can only tell you from my work environment how long people might be busy,

00:32:30figuring out things that should perhaps be a matter of course,

00:32:35if they weren't dealing with the topic to answer such simple questions,

00:32:39like, what’s going well, what isn’t, when will we have time for something again?

00:32:42Also greetings to my team, yes, where I think the agency business could also be imagined partially spontaneously, I don’t know, so when

00:32:52clients like us come around the corner and say, we need this really quickly and urgently and please here and please differently and no idea what,

00:32:58at least with us internally, things come up sometimes, because I don’t know, marketing has come around or there’s a product launch or

00:33:04a regulatory requirement needs to be set and what does know everything, yes,

00:33:08I don’t want to make it worse or more serious than it is.

00:33:14But what you just said, when you said, I can chat with the thing

00:33:18and I have expertise about project states, about workforce status, about…

00:33:26What did I discuss with the client last time?

00:33:29It even has this meeting function, I believe, I’m not sure,

00:33:33just for that meeting recording?

00:33:35I want to interject here, the meeting recording is almost the killer feature for us,

00:33:41so that was the moment when most PMs said, all right, we want everything

00:33:46with the AI, because not only is it recorded and then there’s the summary,

00:33:50but as I said, with us it’s called tickets and I have built a prompt

00:33:54with which you can extract these to-dos from this recording, just like the thing itself does already,

00:34:00but in that case the AI does it automatically, if you want it,

00:34:07in the meeting project, the to-dos for the right people, if you add a little

00:34:13for a long time, so to speak. And this is how it goes. The meeting is over and the PM is sitting

00:34:17there, clicks on the little man in the bottom right and says, generate tickets, add,

00:34:23AI, Ticketmaker, Enter, goes for a coffee, comes back, has suggested everything, gets

00:34:30maybe I always do it with a checklist and approval, then you say Go, all the

00:34:36things are there, the tickets are booked with the capacity assigned to the people, in the right project,

00:34:44it's unbelievable.

00:34:45I mean, I don't know how many of the listeners can relate to this now, but I

00:34:54would put it down next and a lot of new ideas that arise from it, just

00:34:58from this conversation now again.

00:34:59I am also very happy that we could meet here for this crossover show

00:35:03because so far we have always been sending voice messages from the car

00:35:06or so, if you've invested more, have you tried that, look here, there are hardly any

00:35:09like this and that and in general, I have no idea, and it's all really nice.

00:35:12But what you're describing should actually, I mean, what one doesn't understand,

00:35:20why are there so few knowledgeable people?

00:35:23So, regardless of whether there might be other cool tools, I'm wondering,

00:35:29at what point should Notion also ramp up a bit to become more well-known

00:35:35?

00:35:36Because the problem you're describing, I don't want to step on your toes, but that

00:35:40is something many people have.

00:35:41And I would like to say that I also find myself in a situation where I say,

00:35:45I would be very grateful if I could ask better questions ad hoc to get answers.

00:35:51Alone, not even the capacity planning and such stuff. But of course that too.

00:35:55Yes, all from that side.

00:35:57I can give you another example, which I also find very fascinating.

00:36:00Namely, we talked in a team leader meeting at some point, and the team leaders

00:36:05with us from the agency management and we brainstormed ideas.

00:36:10And they said it would be nice if we had monitors where, yes, if the

00:36:14The company would know what the company was, where all the possible things that happen are

00:36:17in the company. And I said, well, guys, you are hybrid. So you are

00:36:21at most in the company half the time, if it goes well. So, if that's the case,

00:36:24it has to be on a digital platform as well. Yes, okay. So, can you do

00:36:28anything there? Then this Motion 3.0 with the AI came out and my

00:36:32the prompt for this is kaibinde strich whatsapp so what's up whatsapp and thank you yes I say that

00:36:41because there was a great advertising slogan earlier that doesn't matter so listen up and it looks for

00:36:47through all connected tools including Slack, Drive, documents, comments, and so on for

00:36:56interesting, funny, I have illustrated this with examples and so on, topics and I'm doing

00:37:02just one example. Started in the PM team Welcome back to the North. That's the assignment,

00:37:09the goal is always it can only be one sentence and it has to result in a small card that

00:37:14then runs down on the dashboard of the employees on the right. Or after various

00:37:20rounds of negotiations, the written order from the Insert-customer's name. We have won the

00:37:25pitch. All this information, funny information, what someone commented

00:37:29in Slack, so for you in Teams like chat or whatever. All this stuff is now

00:37:35just coming in, like a social network. They just come in like that,

00:37:41this is done by this AI. And so far I'm still having my colleagues from the office curate it,

00:37:46so that there isn't somehow, you know, a funeral or something coming up in between.

00:37:50Yes, it's absolutely insane what you suddenly get up and where people suddenly see

00:37:55can see what all is going on, because you don't get that anymore if you're not in the

00:38:00office every single day.

00:38:02That's right.

00:38:03Yes.

00:38:04Well, I also really like being in the office not just because I want to see my colleagues while

00:38:08they’re working, but also because you definitely want to pick up on things that are happening,

00:38:12which is certainly good, as well as bad, but of course also,

00:38:17things that happen in other projects, and also this moment, whether you like it, that you're there,

00:38:23let's just discuss a topic right now. But what you're describing is probably,

00:38:28no matter how powerful this already is, it's still just the beginning of what is possible.

00:38:34If I think about it, they announced something like this too, if I remember correctly,

00:38:38that in the future you can also start agendas automatically based on time somehow,

00:38:42I don't think that is there yet. Or I couldn't find it and you're going to tell me now,

00:38:46if you had just clicked on this menu function, you would have been there.

00:38:49Let me put it this way, did they officially announce that there are agents?

00:38:53I mean, I took it as there being sender-receiver problems.

00:38:59In chemistry, I think of a tactile representation where roles were assigned

00:39:06and they said it was triggered by some mechanism, and I was already thinking,

00:39:09damn it, if they start and also initiate themselves and

00:39:13maybe can trigger each other, then you are indeed in such an agentic

00:39:19System, because prompts then pursue a goal and can thereby trigger other prompts.

00:39:25And then, I think it will be again... Wow! It's like this, if you are a Notion nerd like me,

00:39:33then you can apply for a program called Notion Ambassador. And there are

00:39:40various things you have to do. I don't know, it's not that hard, but they are looking

00:39:45for people who can sort of multiply, and I've been in it

00:39:49for about a year or so, and we just got the test version yesterday and I am allowed

00:39:56saying that because they actually mentioned it in the keynote. And I have

00:40:01now built two agents, the one, the WhatsApp agent, that I just mentioned.

00:40:05This is actually the one that just looks at 7:15 AM and creates these

00:40:12cards, as I call them, so this news.

00:40:14I am now officially envious.

00:40:17Oh, already. You’ve already been to the WWDCs of this world and have total connections to Apple.

00:40:23I’ve always been jealous of that, I really have.

00:40:26Yeah, okay. Let's just leave that hanging in the air. So from that angle, you're giving me the signal,

00:40:31that the wait is worth it, there could still be cool things coming that we've basically heard from the Profitation

00:40:36announcements. So it's worth mentioning briefly that these agents each

00:40:44have their own access rights. That means you can tell them, okay,

00:40:50I'm giving you access to blah, blah, blah, you have access rights to the database,

00:40:54you can’t really imagine that, it’s just a fucking user trilium this

00:40:59word choice needs to be cut out. So I'll start again. I’ll just write down explicitly.

00:41:04Hello? Okay. This is not for under 18. It’s just a user. My agent is called

00:41:12Mood, so atmosphere. And I say, search in all internal sources like emails, meetings

00:41:17tickets, and so on, Slack for comments, filter them by good or bad mood.

00:41:21Everything in between is irrelevant to me, research thoroughly, blah, blah, blah. And then I get

00:41:25to use the method I want, as often as I want with the train. And the access rights

00:41:31I can manage for any database in any thing, how the access rights work, to

00:41:36give this thing. That's really crazy. This thing can be a member of a group.

00:41:40So, that the people at Notion have through this block structure, what I mentioned at the beginning

00:41:45said, because it’s sort of like this, yes, each element has its,

00:41:51I’ll just call it an entity, can be referenced, is somehow through that,

00:41:57they simply have such a powerful foundational idea, which is now in the career...

00:42:02A good basis.

00:42:03An extremely good basis, yes.

00:42:05Back then, they probably thought, oh, somehow cool idea, but couldn’t foresee

00:42:09can understand what it actually means, and I think that is also a decisive

00:42:14advantage, why maybe these other big players in the market are struggling, when

00:42:19you look at it alone, Karl Klammer, sorry, Microsoft Co-Pilot, they are not that far apart.

00:42:27This is my personal opinion, not an official statement, it is simply very affected

00:42:33in the way it works and then also how it works. So if I look at that,

00:42:36Ding says, fill out an Excel sheet for me, then I'll be happy with people now,

00:42:39that I can write Co-Pilot soon, is missed. But just these stories alone,

00:42:45Rewrite this for me, write me a text, use this style for the text and what you just pulled out of his magic box, that is unthinkable with today's architecture.

00:42:56And from that perspective, I believe that nauschen has really laid a very, very good foundation at this point.

00:43:01If you don't somehow add the finishing touch to the icing, I would briefly like to address the obviously external AI tools anyway.

00:43:08I'd like to mention one more thing for all those who are now dealing with AI but might still be at the beginning, because we've already delved a bit deeper into Notions.

00:43:18I think if you forget everything we've said so far and just say, okay, obviously this whole thing with AI and the internet isn't going away, it's something I have to deal with now.

00:43:31Then just do a free Notion experiment, do a couple of tutorials and play around with it, and

00:43:38don't think in this world of these old men talking here, rather this is

00:43:42simply a new world.

00:43:43It's all over.

00:43:44You don't even have to be happy anymore that you don't have to do everything by hand.

00:43:48you have to in Excel.

00:43:49You don't have to be happy about it, what are columns and rows again?

00:43:52and it's just over.

00:43:54You can just write in this window and you will most likely

00:43:58from our perspective get an extremely good response, 80 to 90 percent, 80 percent. If you play around with the

00:44:03If you chat about things, it gets even better. And in Norschen you can buy one, you can in an,

00:44:09in an app store purchase prompts? You can buy prompts. You can also get them for free.

00:44:16But there is one prompt I absolutely want to mention from Simon.

00:44:19Please go ahead.

00:44:20This is this, this, this prompt that I also recommended to you, it's called Simon with S-A-I because A-I-Men and this prompt costs 79 euros and anyone who has 79 euros available should invest these 79 euros, it’s unbearable what is possible with it and with that you get a jumpstart, oh you, you overtaking then 20,000 cars in the left lane at 300 and you're just at the point where one can be today. I wanted to mention that again.

00:44:49So it’s not just for nerds, but you can download the Norschel.

00:44:53If you want to do AI, you download this Simon thing and you’re good to go.

00:44:58So maybe, this is indeed something to, again, from me once more

00:45:03the statement, also this topic with Notion, to engage with topics,

00:45:08that you might otherwise have to laboriously formulate in other KAE systems,

00:45:12you can also quickly first prompt in Notion.

00:45:15Yes, for example, I also have things and with that I am now

00:45:18I see a segue to something like N8n.

00:45:21I’m trying things out in Notion and then with the knowledge of how well prompts work together,

00:45:27what data I need to perfect it through N8n, because I also

00:45:32don't have the new agents and stuff like that, so I might say, okay, how should

00:45:36I write my prompt to, for example, extract this and that from a text,

00:45:40do this and that, and I don't know what.

00:45:43And then I go ahead and build the work slug step by step, and the cool thing about Notion is that you can even use the webhook feature,

00:45:53thanks to you, you also provided me with an audio track, because somewhere in the workbook you can rate it, just let me know, I’ll give it five stars.

00:46:01So you can say, okay, actions on this database, if something happens, the following trigger will trigger the following actions, and for example, I also built a database where you enter text at the front, and at the back is a status field, the status is set to TWD, and when I set it to ‘in processing’, it triggers a webhook that calls an N8n workflow. The N8n workflow is an agent-based workflow system, open source, a Berlin startup.

00:46:31Highly rated, very interesting, I’ve already talked about this in my episode.

00:46:36It takes the entries and sends them to

00:46:40Gamma, which is an AI with which you can create slides.

00:46:44It takes all that stuff, generates the slides, and when the slides are ready,

00:46:50it sends them back as a link, as a data link in Notion, and so I’ve constructed a

00:46:58delegation time table based on this idea.

00:47:00Depending on what type of tech I assign, slides will be generated, infographics

00:47:05will be generated, texts will be written in the voice of a different persona, or even audio files.

00:47:13And that’s also amazing when you think about it, you write things in there, whether by hand,

00:47:18through AI, through the source, whatever, and then it starts

00:47:23and integrates so well into this AI world that you can also retrofit functionalities that might

00:47:28count in notebook ratings, through N8n, through make.com, through zapier.com,

00:47:35whatever all that stuff is called. And then suddenly also, I’d say, I don’t know,

00:47:41Playing out content on lead-in, playing out content on, I don't know, what to automate with it

00:47:47can be done with a quality and standard. That hits me every time, it feels like, that disappears in the listening,

00:47:54When I then see, I enter something, drink the coffee, come back and in the

00:47:59table there is a task completed and here are, by the way, the files you wanted.

00:48:04That is, I would also say, no matter how good it is after the ending, coh is, at

00:48:10the integration possibilities into other tools, that is amazing.

00:48:14Yes, I mentioned at the beginning when I started with Norschen

00:48:18that, of course, Norschen had no automation, had no AI, had

00:48:22none of that.

00:48:23We relied on a scripting tool from some world, and I used Make because it seemed somehow good and massive and great, and I believe it's also from Europe.

00:48:35Chase over Kai or no, that's not what it's called anymore, some Czech thing, and it's all cool, well, and with that I simply have no idea, I think we spend 3,000 euros a year for licenses, for Make or for, so we do relatively a lot with it, with the database connection, Personio connection.

00:48:53Old memories are coming up with the first employer, which had a lot to do with Datav.

00:48:58We used Datav as an accounting system, and that's why we had to connect it,

00:49:03all our things. I did that as flour or we did.

00:49:05Then I discovered N8N and then I realized,

00:49:09it was the first tool that made the whole Kali thing a bit more loved.

00:49:15And this agent that finds out on its own, this central tool,

00:49:19that finds out on its own, I do this with that, I do this with that, I do this with that.

00:49:22So you could work in an agent-like way, and then somehow I had no idea like our email inbox when inquiries come or incoming invoices.

00:49:31This whole triage to find out who what this is supposed to be and so I built, and I'm still a huge fan, then I first realized it's from Berlin, which I found even better.

00:49:43And overall, I think the guys are cool and how everything is, and that they have a very nice Notion integration and so on.

00:49:50Well, and now, I have to say fairly, that since Notion has progressed so much,

00:49:54I naturally need it less and less, as it's increasingly all going into Notion alone.

00:49:59I went out earlier to use an important AI.

00:50:03Meanwhile, I have Notion Gemini, I have Claude, and I have GPD in the respective

00:50:09latest version.

00:50:10On the day GPD 5 was released, six hours earlier, because in Europe, Notion GPD 5 was available

00:50:17So, six hours earlier. That means they are no longer offset, but it’s clear that Chat GPT 5 has

00:50:25image processing blah blah blah, somehow in the regular version it can do more, but still.

00:50:30It’s a bit like this, that I still use it every night, every day, to do something

00:50:36or it wears out and I have to maintain it every day so that it runs somehow and is connected. So I find exactly this thing that you say,

00:50:45that Notion is such an open system and wants to position itself in the middle and would rather integrate more people and

00:50:53systems than protect its business model. I still think that is wise

00:50:59clever. So they are open to everything. They are open to Microsoft, they are open to the

00:51:05the whole GitHub, Bitbucket and whatever it’s all called. They are open to all the tools and

00:51:10systems and that's exactly what makes it easy.

00:51:14I mean, that was like with my side project or the note, yes chosen after the

00:51:20word, you have the agentic in Notion, do you need less N8n for that reason?

00:51:25Nevertheless, I find this power that lies in open source, open standards,

00:51:31Integration capability and also the simplicity of doing things are impressive, whether I'm now

00:51:37She says, everything I have cobbled together in the evenings is also so easy to

00:51:42keep in notes, especially since I also want to accommodate a bit of the world around me, I know

00:51:46not me, it will show up later.

00:51:47This is definitely an exciting construct.

00:51:49And since yesterday, we also have this Workslow-images at the night ends, that you can per

00:51:54You can build entire workflows where I also had a little

00:51:58lack of sleep yesterday evening because I was trying to optimize the workflows I own,

00:52:03or create new workflows, I'll explain it myself.

00:52:07I didn't see that.

00:52:10Normally, you start in that thing by saying, I set a note, what triggers my event,

00:52:21create my processes, I would define the variables with notes, make the internet calls, control the agents with LLM models.

00:52:29and you have to kind of click together the process logic yourself by connecting the notes.

00:52:36and then you can tick off a more or less large workflows for yourself.

00:52:42And I believe it was yesterday, or at least I saw yesterday that they released a beta version in the

00:52:47cloud version with a workflow builder, meaning you now get

00:52:53when you open a workflow, no longer the classic little plus sign,

00:52:58to select a note, but to build a workflow supported by AI.

00:53:03And then you chat with the workflow and you write in what you would like.

00:53:07I told the thing that when we follow on LinkedIn, it knows that I have an advisory board

00:53:12I put together, like 20 notable people, which I have stored as persona prompts,

00:53:18who are invited to a discussion on a topic that I present to the

00:53:24board, the consultant chooses whom he will discuss with, discusses with the

00:53:30relevant rules for the discussion between the prompts and gives me the result.

00:53:35So I asked that as a question to the workshop facilitator.

00:53:40I told him, you wait, I now have 20 prompts, I need placeholders for that.

00:53:44I have a web interface, so that the nrnd provides.

00:53:49I want to make a sub-blog for supporting types, I want there to be a consultant,

00:53:54who checks which of my prompts are the best for that, who then verifies,

00:53:59with what methodology can I achieve a good result, so applying moderation techniques,

00:54:05that you summarize. I initially had it at 1600 characters, but that was too

00:54:09long, I then had to shorten it to 1000, pressed enter, and then it started,

00:54:12it built. And what it built worked. It's not like you then

00:54:17suddenly have a box with a question mark, like when you look at your N8n workflow

00:54:22not with ZTT or from Hoppig nonsense constructs, but it was a fully functional workflow,

00:54:29that you could also continue working with. Well, it's beta, sometimes the workflow would

00:54:34fail on me, then I had to get used to saving on time. But they have now

00:54:40practically elevated this whole Citizen Developer and anyone can build workflows idea to a

00:54:44simplification because you can now work with this tool in beta. They said,

00:54:50it will only be available in the cloud for now, but I have my worst workflows that I had at

00:54:55I basically have. Glimm, because they are big, because they also there, learning by doing, I haven't

00:55:00read 50,000 courses, I also try them out. My worst workflows were rebuilt within 8

00:55:06minutes. With CELAS-Hellenabfangen, so I would say in a better quality than

00:55:12my old workflows. Also that they set some kind of note, and at this point is

00:55:17is now JavaScript code and there was JavaScript code in this note and he then helped himself there

00:55:22with things that he, let's say, couldn't achieve with the classic notes

00:55:26because it also wasn't, but all custom notes came, so custom notes are notes

00:55:31from the community for connecting to, I don't know what, whether there are also devils there,

00:55:34because they don't, I have to look.

00:55:35Mhm.

00:55:36But it was so impressive that I tell the thing, you know, I have the following

00:55:39Problem, create a workflow for me and you hit play and it runs.

00:55:43Yes, you think to yourself, hold on, hold on, that's quite a statement about something,

00:55:50that started as Open Source, that comes from Germany, that integrates so well into

00:55:55Notion. One must be fair, it integrates really well with many other things too.

00:55:58And for me, it really is the second tool in this trio, yes, the first is

00:56:05Manus.

00:56:06Manus is really amazing for internet research, the second is

00:56:09then Notion and the third is then End to End.

00:56:11It's really a wonder, it feels magical.

00:56:15Yes, so if you're a developer or have studied all this and do it every day,

00:56:24then connecting data sources, linking data sources, is everyday work, and it costs somehow PT,

00:56:31like person days or headaches or whatever, then you can do that.

00:56:34But then when you suddenly get to know Make or later End to End and realize,

00:56:39Okay, someone is solving the problem of connecting these data sources with one central hub and the other data source too.

00:56:49And now I just have to be smart, but not too smart and instantiate some objects and I don’t know what else to do.

00:56:57I basically just have to put it together like an operator used to do with phone connections.

00:57:03And that means I can focus on the actual problem.

00:57:07And that's why I find this low-code workflow world so exciting for me, because I'm not a developer by background,

00:57:14but more a designer or something else, but definitely not a core developer.

00:57:19But I really want these things to work, so for me this series Make, End to End,

00:57:25all the AI tools, the whitespace coding and of course Notion fit together perfectly,

00:57:30because it enables more for someone who understands the things I want to do, enables me to do more of those.

00:57:36That I'm also somehow within a company, as I said, greetings to, as you say so nicely, to the people who might hear this.

00:57:43I know you find it annoying that the boss is programming, it's all good, but still, from my perspective, from my role,

00:57:55this is the best thing that can happen, and about Norschi's vision, that people who have a problem can solve this problem themselves.

00:58:01So, that’s just a nutrition.

00:58:04There's so much truth to what you said, people who don't have technological depth cannot create solutions, that was one point.

00:58:14And now it's increasingly being implemented in more and more different places,

00:58:18that you don't even have to draw these lines and think about it.

00:58:22What do I actually need for the solution to my problem, rather I throw,

00:58:26This is me but magnetically. My desired target understanding in the room, less well

00:58:32or poorly formulated to note, I just have to chat longer and I get the solutions.

00:58:36Solutions that, when you started from PT, we’re also talking about person days, meaning

00:58:42then IBL, internal employees, external employees, you haven't seen? No, external fund outflows

00:58:48around. Anyway, late hour, right? It’s twenty to ten, it’s not that late, but maybe

00:58:53that puts this Freudian slip in perspective. But one will also be able to say,

00:58:58I talk with the stuff, I get a solution, and thus I have to talk longer with the stuff,

00:59:04until the solution is as I would like it to be. And when I first opened it up at night

00:59:09I also thought I was reminded a bit of the past,

00:59:11at first it scared me because I thought, what is this?

00:59:14Victory tree and then I make a line, where are we? I mean, I see

00:59:18Sauscode. In Sauscode lies the truth. Also here, greetings

00:59:22to the developers. The real truth is in the Sauscode, not in the documentation, the Sauscode

00:59:26knows. And when I saw that, I was reminded of something that’s been

00:59:30very, very long ago. Yahoo Pipes. Maybe that really had

00:59:33ever seen. Yahoo, it's been a while. Yahoo. So I can't see. And there was

00:59:39also the possibility to connect things with pipes. That was a lot more

00:59:43colorful and everything. It definitely had nothing to do with AI. But then you stand there and

00:59:48think, you're supposed to create something cool with this.

00:59:50And now you realize, you're creating cool things with this.

00:59:54And we basically turned the IT landscape upside down with these two tools.

00:59:58So when you think about it, I mean, you just talked about Datives,

01:00:02that's against Datives, of course everything in consulting and accounting is very important and correct.

01:00:06But I mean, Datives, SAT, and their peers all come from a time,

01:00:11where large database systems, fixed data flows,

01:00:14everything is hard-coded, as it is, it is not interpreted and then suddenly you have systems,

01:00:20that understand you better, that understand your colleagues, employees, friends, acquaintances better,

01:00:26and enable competent matters, like your deployment planning, like what happened with the customer,

01:00:33why is this going wrong and maybe there are patterns that keep recurring and that you can simply understand data and connections better.

01:00:41That's amazing. And because you say, that's not always perfect, well, I would say it like this. I sometimes get surprised too.

01:00:48There are people who lie to you. There are people who are mistaken and present their lack of knowledge as knowledge because they believe they're right.

01:00:55With computers, we're not used to it. The computer, you expect the answer to be correct.

01:01:00It's called hallucinating with computers. And I'm really curious where the journey of these tools and possibilities will go.

01:01:07And when we finally get a mortal version in this Notion version and what else might come behind it, it's a great time.

01:01:17It’s a great time, but I still have one, we can cut this later, but I have one point that is, at least for me, relevant.

01:01:25And namely, I just said for everyone who does something completely different, anything at all, it really doesn't matter what.

01:01:32For everyone, it will be necessary to deal with AI.

01:01:36Just as it was necessary for everyone to deal with PCs.

01:01:39And Apple has liberalized or made the Mac available for everyone.

01:01:45The Mac is for everyone.

01:01:47And so I would currently say it’s a case for humanity.

01:01:50As soon as there are stocks, I will buy all the stocks I can buy.

01:01:53That’s totally clear.

01:01:55No financial accounting here?

01:01:57No, no, we are not providing legal advice.

01:01:58Financial development, tax consulting, disclaimer, impressum, please visit www.sv.gov. What I want to say

01:02:04is.

01:02:05We need to meditate on this again briefly.

01:02:08Norschen has built this AI in.

01:02:11We talked a bit about it, but now there is something that I think, if

01:02:15you are listening now and you are a company, you have a business, you work

01:02:20in a company, you have some knowledge that you manage, that you know.

01:02:25You know yourself, you learn, you study, it doesn’t matter what.

01:02:29Just imagine you put all this into this Norschen for some reason,

01:02:33just like you do with your notes or something.

01:02:35And then Norschen said, everything is the same, build in a career.

01:02:38But then they also said, I will provide you the opportunity,

01:02:42to set a master prompt.

01:02:45And now I have written in my master prompt who I am, what I think.

01:02:51My colleague from the editorial team, who leads the editorial team,

01:02:55thank you very much, I put together 40 questions, the Prust questionnaire from

01:03:01FACET and many other questions that I have all answered. Of course, I

01:03:05spoke, transcribed, summarized, categorized. I have

01:03:09completely primed my master prompt with me. And when I now say to this

01:03:14thing, oh, and Norschen has the entire context of my company. And

01:03:20by the way, also my personal context. When I have renovated my house,

01:03:23I have organized everything in Norschen of course, and so on.

01:03:26That means everything I am and can do is contained in it.

01:03:30My two books that I have written are in there.

01:03:32Everything is in there.

01:03:33And when I write something now, it all becomes just like me.

01:03:38And then people ask me, did you write that with AI or by yourself?

01:03:42And those are the people I previously told that I wrote it with AI.

01:03:48I want to say, it's so crazy when you take these prompts,

01:03:53So when you take the context and the prompt together, when you say to yourself,

01:03:57okay, I just create the whole context because I just put everything bluntly in there,

01:04:02just dump every data, my ideas, if I want, what is me, my recipes,

01:04:08all my recipes are in there. All the recipes I love to cook.

01:04:11All recipes are in there. And then I have a prompt,

01:04:14in which I explain who I am, in which I explain how my company works,

01:04:17what I think about AI, what my position on strategy is, what my position on that is.

01:04:21And no matter what I ask the AI, I have a little chat window at the bottom right, no matter what I ask it, it will always respond in the context in the way I am.

01:04:31And you have to imagine this briefly, you don't have to do anything complicated, you don’t have to know how to program, you don't have to understand AI, you just have to understand, I put everything in this Norschen and I put effort into this master prompt and if I don’t want to make an effort, 79€, Simon, buy and goodbye, then I’m done, then I have simply surpassed everyone.

01:04:50overtaken. Any advice that wants to choose some advice for me. I've overtaken everyone. I'm just

01:04:55Joch Morch. This is really ever. We don't need to cut anything. It fits perfectly,

01:05:01because when it comes to our release, we’re used to jumping around in topics.

01:05:06Greetings to Jens, it’s not just on you, it’s also on all of us. Whether you want to arrange it differently in your

01:05:11episode, you can think about that. But again, it applies here,

01:05:17While you're speaking, one realizes what Notion means, when you've used it a bit longer,

01:05:27because it not only has AI now and can address things cooler, but it also simply has knowledge

01:05:36and knows relationships and the more it knows, where you use it, the better the results it gives back

01:05:45And this idea with the Master Prompt, I have the pack and I'm still trying to learn a few things from it because he did that quite cool, also thinking along the lines of, here, his AgentOS, so how do we actually move forward, and how does it actually work, so which functionality of the prompt is now pulled for the question he gets asked?

01:06:06That's already inspiring, shows, but really, we are facing great times, but the

01:06:18solution doesn’t automatically mean you have to sign the largest cloud packages of the big manufacturers in

01:06:25large quantities. I also recently read in a study, that's not really a study in

01:06:31a report, about how few people supposedly license Co-Pilot.

01:06:35I mean, I understand that, but it also says something about whether the solution

01:06:40helps you or not.

01:06:41And if you see even just a spark of an idea in there that AI could theoretically help

01:06:49could, is basically this recommendation, which you beautifully expressed, go

01:06:53try it out, so I won’t pay from the outside, whether you

01:06:58You would say, no, but you didn’t say it, did you?

01:07:01Okay, then it’s simple, take Notion, try it out, just look at it and just ask a silly question to the system

01:07:09and let yourself be surprised by what comes out as a result,

01:07:14and I would bet that everyone who installs Notion and asks a serious question will stick with it.

01:07:23Yes, I believe that too.

01:07:25It's so nice that it can grow very well with your needs.

01:07:30You can start with a small stamp collection that you want to archive

01:07:35or where you need a database, you can do it just like that, nicely with images and nicely

01:07:40design it a bit, and so on, like these complex systems.

01:07:44And what I also have to mention is the community of people who work with Notion,

01:07:49whether you're on social media or on Slack in those things, they are really,

01:07:54really nice people, it's very open-minded, it's very multi-cultural, there are people from all

01:08:00corners of the world, so super interesting, also what they do with it, how

01:08:05they do it, sometimes totally crazy, sometimes really inspiring stories and

01:08:10what I really recommend to everyone who is new to Notion are these three, or rather,

01:08:15I mentioned three, I believe three podcasts, videos, video channels, so how you have it

01:08:20YouTube channels, exactly. Simon as Better Creating, Thomas Frank, and Matthias Frank from Berlin,

01:08:26those are the three, if you watch them, you simply have the complete package and a

01:08:30super foundational supply or a complete supply actually. You can learn a lot from

01:08:35them, yes.

01:08:36So, with the topic of foundational supply, I am now familiar with it professionally, but

01:08:40he means, of course, the topic. That's another foundational supply.

01:08:44You must mean energy supply, right?

01:08:47I want to.

01:08:48Yes, that's nice, in our podcast it usually ends then at the end, so we say thank you and if you liked it, then tell your friends, family, and everyone and leave us a like and share the podcast, etc.

01:09:05What else can we do for you?

01:09:07So usually I have, but we already did that, an A or B question, I stole that from alles gesagt and we are not doing that today.

01:09:17I definitely want to thank you, dear Mark, for being with us and for having a podcast together.

01:09:24Where we shared with each other

01:09:27What we are experiencing in this digital age, using that name one more time, and I'm very happy that I could still inspire you

01:09:34With a technology because now I finally have a conversation partner

01:09:40who is probably just as or almost as crazy about it as I am. So,

01:09:47when it comes to AI, you are crazy, as I am, but AI and Notch, that's definitely something,

01:09:51that unites us. So, thank you for being here. Thank you for giving me, in a way,

01:09:56homework as well, when we finish recording here in a moment,

01:09:59I not only know that I am happy to provide you with the recording,

01:10:04but also that I will try your feature in Notion.

01:10:09Thank you for being here. Thank you all for listening.

01:10:12We are now going to wrap it up.

01:10:14In that sense, until next time.

01:10:17Ciao. See you soon. Bye.

01:10:21Welcome to Think Different, Think AI.

01:10:24The podcast by Mark and Jens.

01:10:26Two tech-loving minds,

01:10:29who don’t just talk about artificial intelligence but live it.

01:10:33Here you will find clear categorization, real practical insights, and a fresh perspective on what is possible.

01:10:39Understandable, critical, and always with a wink.

01:10:43H.I. to think about, to chuckle at, and above all, to discuss.